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Community Forums › Miniature Gaming › Flames of War › Origins- Russians return
Origins- Russians return

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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject: Origins- Russians return

If you are a Flames of War player, then the National Tourny is a must. We ended up with 62 players of all types and sizes. Most numerous army being german followed by US. Over all winner was a DAK force out of OKLAHOMA, played by a friend of mine Steve Tinsley. Best General was a US Mech force which had 4 wins and one loss to Steves Dak force.
My Russian armor finished tied for 4th which I was very happy with. Beat a Dak armor force, a SS Panzer Grenadier force,and a Italian mixed army force. Lost to a german grenadier force in a city fight. With no infantry in a city fight, I kept being assaulted by german infantry and antitank guns controlled the streets. I needed infantry and artillery, neither of which I had in my list. Last I played a german panzer grenadier force with 6 anti tank guns and played to a draw. Had alot of fun and met some very good gamers. Highly recommended. Terry

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ogre
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Terry,

congrats, and thanks for sharing the info. I hope I can get to the store and sit down and talk with you for a bit about Second edition. I am sure we can give each other some great insights.

chris
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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Chris, Second edition is really changed. When phil said it wasn't going to change much, he obviously didn't want to upset the players. Concealment is really different. Artillery ranges in easier but comand distances increased by 2 inches for all troop classes, so fewer targets. Air of course is different and I like it. One target a turn makes sense. Point changes I agree with but US rifle should be a ROF 2, I still don't agree with 1 ROF. 88s more expensive, but artillery cheaper. Biulding rules make sense now, and CnC appointing new command I like to platoons. Warriors have been tamed a bit and in shooting you must assign hits for sure now. They stressed, no more picking your casualties. Place die for hits behind teams and roll each team separate. Thats how you can lose command stands, where before it was last stand killed. Now if command stand killed you can stop and don't rout of board, but await a new commander. Chris, let me know when you and I can get together, lets do it over a game. Any of the stores are fine with me. Terry

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ogre
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Terry,

I worked on the proofreading of Ostfront and Version 2 rulebook for the last three months. My problem is I havn't been able to talk to anyone around here about them until the 6th. Even now, I still can't talk about the difference between the free book and the main book. More surprises coming. That is why I need to come up and see you at the shop and talk about your first hand visit with the BF boys. That will help me understand some of the intent better on some of the stuff I have been reading for months.

chris
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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Chris, sounds good. Have you seen the forum today? How about the guy with 8 pages of mistakes or problems between books. Hopefully the hard copy will be a little better. There are some things just flat out not in the books that should be there. I also play British and I am glad to see the No HE solid shot rule I always read about when reading historical tank actions in the desert. Over all I think the rules are a good improvement, but broad statements, like tank buster shots in checking all stands in a building? Where do you draw the line on size of biuldings. It seemed they clean up one area, like fire first, smoke second, which was cheesy then open up others. There were guys at nationals that mounted there infantry the short way on the stand, so they could get more fire in a smaller area. Were they told that was illegal, No, could they stay in the tourny, yes. Only later in John pauls seminar did he address it. They were told to change for next year or don't come back. Enough of my rantings, lets get together and talk shop, play a short game and talk while we play. I am free most days. I travel and am gone every other week. Bobs or Merlyns are fine. I am on the road right now.

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ogre
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Terry,

I worked on the minor axis story section. I had no list of the new stats so couldn't check stats. So I proofed the written section of Finns, Hungarians and Romanians.

I proofed all of the Mini Rulebook. But some of it is not how I proofed. Also there are things added that weren't there when it was sent to me. So I think a few things were added to the mini rulebook at the last minute. Actual proofreading errors in it are few. But even those can be expected when you realize they write in English and I write in American. I had to spend more hours online checking English spelling and usage as opposed to American.

I have read and reread the minirulebook and can only find a handful of mistakes that I missed. Less than 5 in 168 pages. None of which has been listed on the website.

As for Ostfront and Afrika, the issues there from what the proofreaders are saying was a massive layout issue with cut and pasting being more the culprit. In other words a mixup with old stuff being put where the new should have been. With things not pasted at all. etc. But as I am not privy to that, I can only guess.

When are you going to be in the store? Days and times? I would love to pop over and have a visit.

Chris
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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Chris Sounds good. I am out of town on business this week and back on Monday. Helping my sister move Tuesday and after that I am free. Evan and I are to get a game in and William in Idaho is up for a game.I am fielding Russians against Evan and Germans against William. Here is my cell number 509-8683789. Call any time, I am up to talking gaming any time. The mini book really reads pretty good, but the mistakes in the campaign books are to numerous to mention. I see phil is putting out corrections soon. Its fun right now on the forum with all the discussion going on, on whats there and what isn't. It has stirred up the players, which is always good for a hobby. Going right to late war is a good financial move, as john-paul told us sales were down. The new era, is also a good idea. Give me a call. Terry

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Ok,

I am usually available during the days and can sometimes pop over to Spokane for a few hours. Earlier is better, but I know you don't have the store open then. Let me know what days next week you are going to be in the store early and I will try to come over. I will bring Germans or Soviets with me to play out sections of the rules if we want to see how they actually work on a table top.

Chris
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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Chris, Great, It will either be Wednesday or Thursday. Leaning towards thursday. We can work through some of the rules. Played the other night and woods are really different. The 6 inch rule, unless you are half in and half out makes moving and setting up in the woods really different. No more long range shots into or out of woods, unless you are clearly half in. Some deployed 88s were in the woods like the old rules and would have been a great position but could only see 6 inches, then bogged when trying to corrected there deployment. Fought through some biuldings and that is really different. No more charging from one house into the next, now you need access and must stop out side the biulding. Just different things we ran into. Terry

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ogre
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Yep,

The 6" rule will be huge when defending objectives near woods. Imagine a large wooded area with a fully upgraded and added to Soviet strelk company with sappers, AT rifles and flamethrowers. All hiding in a wood. You can't bomabard them unless your observer gets within 6", you can't shoot them unless you get within 6". They are contesting an objective. Guess what, you have to bite the bullet and assault the monster horde.


It will truly change the nature of the game. The building fighting is quite different as well but will not affect very large buildings like at Stalingrad but for city fighting or 4-6 houses in a village it will be huge.

Chris
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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Chris, I am thinking about my T34s sitting in a woods and untouchable until the enemy is with in the range I like. Thats one thing John-Paul stressed was more terrain on the board. He said US players put so little terrain out that most games are wide open. Like he said if you are on the russian steppe or in the desert ,OK, but otherwise europe is full of villages and towns, woods and hills. Origins was very terrain heavy and it gave infantry alot more cover to use. He said woods should be alot bigger then we are used to. They had alot of fields at harvest time, plowed fields and orchards. All adding more terrain types to the board. Every board had at least one village, but most had a town, some a town and village. At least 6-8 structures or 12-14 on a 2 village board. Made long range shots alot harder. We had 2 tables of boucage in france and a town with stone walls running around each house. Some tables had multiple streams and all had roads of some type.We had a table with a large central marsh, only wide track and infantry could cross. Alot of terrain thought went into the boards, John-Paul said take the time and setup a challenging board. I have to admit alot of my boards are pretty open, deploying on a difficult board is a challenge. I guess one I should take more often Terry

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ogre
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Yep,

Just drive out into the country around here and see how much open terrain is available. Unless you are in very large open fields. Something you only see in America and Southern Russia. Then the terrain and density is high.

Even Russia had lots and lots of terrain. Read some of the accounts by General Raus of the 6th Pz Division. Or some of Wittman's stug actions from 41. All they talk about is close actions in nasty terrain. Trying to get large open fields of fire was useless. It didn't happen unless oneside or the other set their defenses up on the edge of heavy terrain with killing fields to the front.

Yep terrain, and fortifications when the main rulebook comes out will make the game alot different but more balanced. You will seriously have to think about including pioneers just for the goodies they bring.

Hope to see you next week, Thursday or Friday.

Chris
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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Looking forward to it Terry

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Terry,

Is Friday noonish going to work for you? I see you already have a game setup for Thursday.

chris
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DeathorGlory
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Origins- Russians return

Chris, Its only a problem if my wife takes the day off, which she does occasionally to be home with me. I have to be the good husband, you know the drill. Why don't we meet at 10 am, when merlyns opens, Thursday, play like a small armor battle and mainly talk gaming and the new rules. It possibly could turn into more people but there are some new players trying to figure out just how to play. I am always interested in adding new players. Let me know what you think. Terry

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