#1: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: DeathorGlory, Location: SpokanePosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:58 am ---- If I make another 8,000 point senario, I will stipulate the force make ups a little more. I had played the scenario out in time- distant relationship and contact was on turn one on the flanks and center contact on turn 4, all that worked, but having a table full of infantry just made the game run very slow. I had thought I made it clear that speed was very important, but I will be clearer next time. I liked the flow of the game, soviet wave rule is very tough, 45mm soviet AT gun is good. We did not see its full effect but it is tough in this time frame. German armor, while expensive is actually a good match for the russians. Next scenario in 3-4 weeks is for Tabor, Yes, The US Paras are coming. Thanks for everyones support of sundays game.
#2: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: ogre, Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:20 am ---- Terry,
Even tho Taber had Mech/Motorized infantry, with judicious use of smoke he should have cracked that line much quicker. Oh well, we learned a lot of valuable lessons.
The force I designed for him, I knew how to play. The Soviets getting the extra 8" range two turns in a row made only a small difference.
Sean thought he had outflanked my tanks with his infantry on the last turn, but I wish we had played that out so I could have shown him how clever my positioning was.
He was assaulting the 2iC tank, which can join any platoon within 8", so it would have joined the pz4 platoon, the pz3 platoon that was within 4" of the assault would have also joined the assault. Giving me, 29 mg shots in defensive fire since he was on the hill and above me so every tank turret would have had a line of fire on the assaulting Soviet infantry.
Needing 2's to hit, I would have caused between 20-24 hits. Devastating that company of infantry. Forcing them to fall back and killing 5-6 stands.
I am a sneaky sob.
#3: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Snakesh!t, Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:42 am ---- Chris,
Smoke wouldn't have helped....I had him pinned every time I assaulted him and he was still pulling off 5+ hits in defensive fire with 5's and 6's to hit....the dice luck was definately with Evan yesterday.....I did manage to start plastering Sean's right flank though....
#4: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: ogre, Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:31 pm ---- Taber,
In two rounds of smoke you could have doubled everything you had to within 16" of him. Never taken a single shot of fire from him and then in a single turn, let loose on his entire line with everything you had. Including two dismounted platoons of mg's 42 shots + 11 shots for ht's. 24 shots from HMG's, 6 shots from 88's, 4 shots from 75's, 9 shots from pak 36's, mortar barrage and then the 105 barrage rerolling misses on both of these barrages, then throw in 16 shots from the 20mm's.
After all of that fire, you would have then been able to assault the end of his line, such that only a few stands would get to defensive fire. Then assault the other end with the other platoon of infantry. You would have massacred him in a single turn and at most two turns. Playing the Germans is about smoking the opposition, moving into position then completely overwhelming him on a narrow front.
Even needing 4's to hit, you should have killed a chunk of his defenders before even assaulting, lessening his defensive fire even more.
9 shots from 3.7mm pak 36's should hit 4-5 times, he will miss two saves, you will roll 1 FP. 16 shots from the 20mm's you will hit 8, he will miss 2 saves, you will roll 1 FP. 6 shots from the 88's you will hit 3, he will miss 1 save and you will kill him. 4 shots from 75's, hit twice, he may miss one save, FP 1. 53 mg shots, hit 26 times, he misses 9 saves, you make 2 FP. Mortar barrage.
Just in one round of shooting you will put holes in his line. So even if you don't assault the first turn, the second turn he will have almost no stands left just from firing. If he has the audacity to shoot at you in his turn, then you get to cripple him even more, because you will hit him on a 2 on the next round of fire.
53 shots needing a 2 means 44 hits. 24 shots from the HMG's means 18 hits, 6 shots from 88's means 5 hits, 4 shots from 75's means 3 hits, 16 shots from 20mm's means 13 hits.
Either way, if he fires back or not, it wouldn't matter, you had enough firepower if within 16" you would have destroyed his line without assaulting. Smoke is the key, that allows you to mount up and move forward and dismount, then move your transport out of range, then lift smoke on your turn and let loose.
Assault on the second turn after warming him up with so much lead. It was a no brainer. But, you are not familiar with working with that kind of a unit. So My fault for talking you into it.
#5: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Guard??, Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:55 pm ---- Chris,
Why don't you write a book on "German" tactics while your at it. You seem to have everything down...
#6: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Dungeon_Master123, Location: spokane, WAPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:20 pm ---- Chris, You should write an article for FOW on the site. With tactics for the Germans and Russians.
#7: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: ogre, Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:32 am ---- Sean,
It was your use of Smoke in the battle last week that really opened my eyes. Had I not saw the way you used it, blocking fire from fully half of the US force, while you concentrated your fire on the other half, the idea would not even be there.
Also remember, that certain tactics will only work in certain situations. Sean's blocking company of infantry were non mobile, so there was no worry about them assaulting out of their holes into a mass of German guns and infantry. So smoking them, then moving upto them, then just smashing them was an option.
In most games that is going to be harder to pull off, because of the forces that our supporting the front line. For that particular nut, the tactics needed were simple. Thanks to Sean's use of smoke last week, I knew which piece of the puzzle to apply.
Now I see why they don't give the Soviets smoke. It would be a slaughter. They would smoke until they were ready to assault.
Sean, you should have mounted two full companies on David's tanks, as tank riders and rode up the middle faster. You may have lost a few stands, but you would have ended up in the middle, in that big forest section with half your infantry. When his two tank companies did the wave, the rest of your infantry could have hitched a ride as well.
I wish I had all the German Tactics down, Sean Cruz is the person to write up those. I am still learning how to use my Germans.
Overall, I think the EW points are about right, I think the Wave Rule is good and I think ammo shortage is appropriate for balance. The EW Germans have to buy 88's no matter what. Without them they will almost always lose if the enemy brings heavy armor.
#8: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Snakesh!t, Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:47 am ---- Well seems I was a moron in not reading the smoke rules closely enough....I thoght (yes I just read the rules so consider myself educated) that the smoke only added +1 to hit (that is in direct fire) not acted as a terrain piece until MY starting step....lesson learned.....and to be honest assaulting into the smoke would've prevented Evan from getting as much defensive fire as he did.....can't wait to use smoke bombardments more often....think I'm off to H-town to get some 105's or even armored artillery.....
#9: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: ogre, Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:22 am ---- Yes,
The US look even better with smoke. See that Tiger and those 88's, smoke. Maneuver, destroy front area. Smoke Tiger, smoke 88's, maneuver destroy next area.
Yes, smoke is awesome. No wonder the Soviets don't get it.
#10: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Dungeon_Master123, Location: spokane, WAPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:28 pm ---- How do you afford all of this and collage at the same time taber???
#11: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Snakesh!t, Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:44 pm ---- Well.....I still live at home, I make a lot of money (government job) and I don't buy a whole helluva lot else....
#12: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Dungeon_Master123, Location: spokane, WAPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:41 pm ---- Smart man! Does you mom yell at you for being on the computer????
#13: Re: Scenario- To Long!!!! Author: Snakesh!t, Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:31 am ---- yeah....but they aren't home most of the time.....